Having
seen the confidence vote through comfortably, foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee
now has a bigger job on his hand, but without the Left. Exhausted after last
week's rigours, The Times of India found Mukherjee injecting the same energy
into getting the nuclear deal through some very formidable steps. In a
conversation with Indrani Bagchi, Mukherjee shows why he remains indispensable
to politics and diplomacy
alike.
Were
you anxious before the vote, did you think the government was ever in any real
danger?
Anxiety is always
there, but as a pragmatic politician I have to take note of the facts. We knew
we had the required majority - after the BSP withdrew their 17 MPs and Left
their 60, we had 39 member support from the samajwadi party, which gave us a
simple majority. The question was, whether all of them would vote. As it
happened, there has been cross-voting from both sides. Some went in our favour
some in their's.
Could the
break with the Left have been managed
better?
We had no intention of
breaking with the Left, but we wanted to have a civil nuclear cooperation with
the international community. They could not agree with it. We could not convince
them that this is not with US alone.
With approval of board of
governors of the IAEA for an India-specific safeguards agreement, and clean,
unconditional clearance by amending guidelines of NSG, India will be in a
position to enter into the nuclear trade with NSG countries. This is the
passport, and the bilateral agreements with individual countries will be the
visa.
Then we will decide. We
will go with the US, we will go with Russia and France.
We told them, let us try to
have the eligibility to have agreements with the NSG. Unless then, we're not
entitled to enter into treaties and international trade and commerce in nuclear
material and technology with
anybody.
Now
that you are more or less certain of getting the safeguards agreement through,
the focus is on the NSG. How does that stack
up?
We are not members of NSG,
so we have to depend on our friends in the NSG. And we have some friends. There
is a difference between IAEA and NSG. NSG needs a consensus which is not the
case with the IAEA. We have to build a consensus. There are certain countries
who are strong believers in non-proliferation. So they may have some ideological
problems which have to be overcome. We're trying to do
that.
What
is India's strategy in our diplomatic
outreach?
We are telling them
two things. First, you look at our track record. Where non-proliferation is
concerned our commitment is firm. After the 1998 Pokhran II tests, unilaterally
we declared a moratorium on further tests by the Vajpayee government. We
declared there would be no first use by us and no use against a non-nuclear
state.
But keeping in view the
geopolitical situation, we had to go for these devices, in 1974 and 1998, from
our own threat perceptions of our security. Every country has to decide its
threat perception by itself, it cannot be determined by someone
else.
But you look at our track
record. It’s impeccable, so far our control over nuclear materials are
concerned, export controls. All our nuclear development has been done by
ourselves, we have not gone down the AQ Khan route. This is our track record.
That, we feel, will be convincing enough for the international community. That
is our
strategy.
What
will you say to the NAM countries next week in Tehran? Many of them are opposed
to our nuclear deal and many of them are members of IAEA and
NSG?
Well, NAM by itself is not
concerned with the nuclear agreement. However, if they ask, this is exactly what
I shall tell
them.
What
was your conversation with Condoleezza Rice
about?
I just informed her
about what was happening here. We were in touch with each other. When the
confidence vote happened and we won, I kept her informed about the developments.
They were aware of it but nonetheless I thought I should let her know myself.
How much will the US
help you in the NSG?
They have
assured us they will help us. Our expectations have been well documented and are
in the public domain, in published documents, in the 18th July joint statement,
Separation Plan, 123 Agreement and the India-specific safeguards agreement
(ISSA).
What
happens if we don't get a clean exemption? Do we
withdraw?
I won’t go into
a hypothetical position at this point. We're trying for a clean exemption and
we're working on it.
Is the time left
too little?
The timeframe has
to be worked out by the persons concerned. The IAEA vote is on August 1. NSG
they will have to work out the timeframe. We're trying to do it as expeditiously
as possible. But we can't give an exact
time-frame.
After
the US presidential candidate Barack Obama said he supports the nuclear deal,
has the pressure of time lifted
somewhat?
So far as the
ratification of the US Congress is concerned, it’s exclusively the
responsibility of the US administration, whichever it is. They will work with
their Congressional representatives. We have seen this huge bipartisan support
in favour of this agreement. Therefore we do hope that it will get reflected at
the appropriate time when it
comes.
Pakistan
has raised some objections at the IAEA. How serious do you think it
is?
Every country is sovereign
and is entitled to have its own view. Pakistan too has its own view. We are
entitled to ours. We do not agree with their perceptions that it will trigger an
arms race. India has no intention of entering into any such race. We are
interested in building a closer cooperation with
Pakistan.
We
have taken a strong position on Pakistan after the Kabul blasts, what will you
do now?
We are waiting for the
full investigation report. After that we will contemplate our next steps. But we
have expressed our concerns to the Pakistan government. The foreign secretary
has done it at his level. Similarly I told their foreign minister Qureshi when I
spoke to
him.
How
will China swing at the NSG?
I
will not conjecture. China is a nuclear weapons state and a member of the NSG.
As and when the situation arises, I believe they will make their decision. We
have discussions with them, but I cannot predict how they will
behave.
Well,
Australia now says it will support India at the
NSG...
Yes, they said they will
support us at the NSG, but on the uranium sale issue they said they will decide
on it when the time
comes.
Are
you planning more diplomatic outreach
initiatives?
This is the first
round. There will be a second round where more people will be sent out. We will
cover all 45 countries. Sometimes by physically going there, sometimes on the
phone. I will go by the traditional way of contacting our
friends.
Were
you disappointed with the
Left?
We never had any
coalition with Left parties before 2004, despite what all of you may think.
Before that from 1947 till 2004 there was no deal with the
Left.
It
wasn't a pleasant
experience...
Who told you
that? We had divergent views in one area. In this area they opposed us from day
one, but in many other areas they extended cooperation. They have their own
reservations on certain economic policies. Coalition does not mean every
coalition partner will accept the views of others. Every political party has
their own views. The common minimum programme is the lowest common
denominator.
So
you're not ruling out going with them a second
time...
Not ruling out or
ruling in.